Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Samar Alsaggaf

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Black Kite (talk) 14:08, 31 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Samar Alsaggaf[edit]

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There is no substantive RS coverage on which to build a Wikipedia article. The subject does not appear to meet the criteria for WP:PROF and WP:AUTHOR. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 01:24, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Academics and educators, Women, and Saudi Arabia. Shellwood (talk) 02:20, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Health and fitness and Medicine. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 03:29, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per @JAnnora2 and @Gorebath. Dunutubble (talk) (Contributions) 20:24, 10 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

English language sources for her notability are quite lacking. However, she is, notably, the first female anatomist in Saudi Arabia, and a prolific author. (Arabic sources are not lacking in support of her notability). With women underrepresented, perhaps keep. JAnnora2 (talk) 04:22, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Can you link to the Arabic sources supporting her notability? Sources don't have to be in English to contribute to GNG. JoelleJay (talk) 01:22, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] Gorebath (talk) 02:51, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Can you substantiate that these are reliable sources? If they are, do these provide substantive coverage of the subject? Per a Google translation, the alkhaleej.ae source mentions her once off-hand in a list of people. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 01:26, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

All these sources provide WP:N and are eligible as per WP:RS. There is a lot more sources in Arabic, this is not an exhaustive list. Gorebath (talk) 03:14, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:59, 6 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:59, 12 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep. The sources do indicate she has received substantial attention in Arab media, although it's still unclear how much of it is RS/fully independent. JoelleJay (talk) 17:39, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The first female scientist in the country, or the first to get a professorship, would probably be notable. The first to do this in a particular scientific specialty is not. DGG ( talk ) 05:55, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Move to draft to provide an opportunity for further sources to be discovered or developed. BD2412 T 02:31, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, the fact that she held the position of a director of a medical Saudi cultural diplomatic mission to the United States in Washington D.C. is notable enough (which, in combination with being the first female anatomist in Saudi, is what's she's mainly known for) Gorebath (talk) 05:50, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Neither of those is a criterion for NPROF or GNG. I think she solidly fails NPROF (unless a case can be made for C7), but am on the fence about GNG -- we need more independent RS going into depth on her for this. JoelleJay (talk) 12:24, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments[edit]

I am on the fence. It would seem that Dr. Samar Al-Saqqaf (Dr. Samar bint Muhammad Omar Al-Saqqaf?) being the "first female anatomist in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia" would be notable. However, using a "Linkedin Page" (two times) directs this to be a resume (What Wikipedia is not). Add that basic biographical information such as date of birth and family life is absent indicates a lack of reliable sources writing about her. Review of sources provided above: This source (The digital library in space) seems to be more about Twitter with passing mention of: "...and knowledge fields from around the world, such as the world The famous Egyptian Professor Farouk Al-Baz, and Dr. Samar Al-Saqqaf, the mother of Saudi scholarship students, in addition to a group of the first Emiratis in several fields." While acceptable as content sourcing, this does not necessarily contribute to notability. This source (Manhom.com through Google translate) shows a very impressive resume which should be far better than Linkedin. This source (The story of the mother of scholarship students, Samar Al-Saqqaf) has far too many "peacock terms", that can be seen as persuasive writing or subjective proclamations. This source corroborates the subject received an Honorary Doctorate which is still is just resume facts.

Surely someone more objective (independent) has written about this subject, that would include her credentials, as well as biographical information that would follow policies and guidelines. Notability has been questioned since 2014 so the proof will be to those wanting inclusion (add to the article) and remove doubts (weak keep: "although it's still unclear how much of it is RS/fully independent") of any that just !vote on a number of sources added. This would land me on the "Keep per WP:HEY." side instead of "Delete" per comments. -- Otr500 (talk) 12:21, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've added more sources and citations, however a couple of users disagree with expanding particularly on her actual role and job description as a director of Medical and Health Science Programs at the Saudi Arabian Cultural Mission to the United States in Washington, hence I will not attempt to expand any further and risk engaging in an edit warring. Gorebath (talk) 06:06, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: The last relist period has produced constructive discussions, going to try one more time to see if we can find a consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Stifle (talk) 10:43, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep per JoelleJay and WP:NPROF#1 (e) For the purposes of partially satisfying Criterion 1, significant academic awards and honors may include [...] honorary degrees, (Hartford Courant, 2013). Beccaynr (talk) 18:53, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep - Mainly because I have no idea how much coverage is in the sources in Arabic. The English sources indicate that she held important positions. There are also a few articles in G-Scholar that appear to have her name on them, but again I'm not sure if there can be ambiguity in the various name forms. Someone with Arabic language skills could possibly figure out which ones are her and add them to the article. Lamona (talk) 03:13, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.